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Published by carolyn on Thu, 2015-08-06 01:25

English genetic heritage is not German.

Posted by Kumiko Oumae on Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 02:17 PM

The following an excerpt only, from the comments:

Posted by DanielS on August 04, 2015, 03:42 AM | #12


The longstanding and commonly held misconception that the English are quite nearly the same as Germans undermines that warrant by lending itself to the propositional argument that England is a nation of immigrants and therefore the English do not have a unique claim to their land.

Of course, there is also my “nefarious” motivation to show that the English have not been merely misguided and “disloyal” Germans, who need to understand why, as Germans, they should have acted precisely in lock-goose step with Nazi Germany.

Posted by n/a on August 04, 2015, 10:34 AM | #13


Science and reality do not care about your anti-Germanism. The genetic data says what it says; Oppenheimer incorrectly claimed what he claimed; you’ve promoted the misinformation you’ve promoted. You can rage at Germany as much as you want, but you don’t get to make up facts to suit your politics.


On a global scale, the English are “quite nearly the same as Germans” (just as they’re “quite nearly the same” as most other NW Europeans). A substantial fraction of English ancestry does in fact represent “recent” Germanic immigration (which has comparatively little to do with the modern republic of Germany and more to do with the Low Countries and Denmark; modern Germany likely has not insubstantial amounts of Celtic ancestry).

The English do not need any justification to control their own territory. They don’t require moral absolution from an Italo-Pole or Japanese. Attempting to found a justification on denying Germanic ancestry among the English means you are arguing, e.g., the Welsh have a greater claim to England than the English, or that to acknowledge Germanic settlement (and later continental European immigration into Britain) somehow justifies the replacement of the English in England with subcontinentals, Africans, or Japanese.


To read the entire article and other comments:


Plattdeutsch (literally flat Dutch/German) or Low German is a language (or dialect) that is spoken throughout Northern Germany and Eastern Netherland.
It is rather related to English than German imo. My grandparents spoke it fluently. It sounds like a mix of English and German. Plattdeutsch is a dying language though.

... Without the varies imported words from the French and Romans, that is... A simple English-LowGerman, Plattdeutsch. 

"substantial fraction of English ancestry" seems to be corroborated here, but arguments may exist over 'substantial':

"Blood of the Isles: Exploring the genetic roots of our tribal history" by Professor Bryan Sykes, 2006 (didn't take long for the associated webpage to be up for sale!)

DNA inquiry into origins of peoples of the British Isles.

(CORGI edition 2007) pp.337-8
"... there are far more people with Celtic ancestry in England, even in the far east, than can claim to be of Saxon or Danish descent. . . . Overall the genetic structure of the Isles is stubbornly Celtic, if by that we mean descent from people who were here before the Romans and who spoke a Celtic language. . . . we are genetically rooted in a Celtic past. The Irish, the Welsh and the Scots know this, but the English sometimes think otherwise. But, just a little way beneath the surface, the strands of ancestry weave us all together as the children of a common past."

It's disappointing that Sykes used vague and flowery language and the word 'Celtic' in this context since afaik when he says on p. 338 "We are an ancient people" he is referring to heritage that dates back at least to the Stone Age and the last Ice Age, not to Celtic invasions of a few hundreds of years BC. These earlier inhabitants were the peoples who spoke a language long ago lost and who later spoke Celtic after the subsequent invasions of the (Germanic) Celts.

I don't like, all puff 'n' blow.

And now he allegedly has a female japanese assistant writing there. But sometimes "she" sounds like a ventriloquist's dummy sitting on his knee.

@Beary1991 - I move along as soon as I see the word 'celtic' [there were none in these islands]. Sykes is a fabulist. What else would you be trained at Oxford? I corresponded with a member of a 2006 London University team studying Anglo-Saxon DNA and whose findings demonstrated the reliability of the traditional 'inavsion theory' of migration [more properly progressive colonization] over minority assimilationist propositions peddled religiously by academics and by popular media since the late 'eighties - a time of the Maastricht Agreement that guaranteed national disintegration and a time when anti-Thatcher leftists more or less finally supplanted the old guard at universities around the country. A German whose rectitude and thoroughness seemed dangerously close to stereotypical he told me in no uncertain terms of the pressure he'd come under to alter his findings. Indeed he abandoned Anglo Saxon research in disgust immediately thereafter. We are at war. When are we going to realise it? We are intimidated by the appearance of expertise and by letters after a name that all too often camouflage dubious motives and even outright lying.

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