The Goebbels-Vlasov-Irving Question

Published by carolyn on Wed, 2014-11-19 02:53

The Case of what David Irving wrote about Joseph Goebbels according to Wolf Wall Street.

The question: Did Goebbels fight to convince Adolf Hitler to put the captured Soviet general and collaborator Andrey Vlasov into the field against the Red Army, sometime before 1943?

Background: Vlasov's army was surrounded and he was captured on July 12, 1942. A Baltic German captain convinced Vlasov to cooperate with the German Army. Vlasov was taken to Berlin under the protection of the Wehrmacht's propaganda department. He founded the "Russian Liberation Committee" in hopes of forming a Russian Liberation Army. In Spring 1943 Vlasov wrote an anti-Bolshevik leaflet that was dropped by the millions on Soviet forces. He also wrote an open letter against Bolshevism. The propaganda department issued Russian Liberation Army patches to Russian volunteers using Vlasov's name, but those who wore them never served under his command. Both Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler were against giving Vlasov command of an army of Russians so it wasn't until March 1945 that he was given this opportunity. His final act in early May was to allow his battalions in Prague to join the Czech Resistance and fire upon the SS troops still fighting there.

Why the question has come up: "Wolf Wall Street" (WWS) said on his program of Nov. 9th (The Nordic Myth) that Joseph Goebbels "fought" with Hitler and Himmler to allow Vlasov to form his Russian volunteer army. But he didn't say when or give a source for this information, which is not to be found anywhere. Carolyn Yeager questioned him about it when he called into her Saturday Afternoon program of Nov. 15. WWS said he read it somewhere but couldn't recall where at the time.

At 1h36m WWS said, in answer to Carolyn's question:

Goebbels was definitely out of favor with Hitler when he had an affair with the Czech actress, I forget her name but you can read the pdf.

Since the book is very long, Carolyn asked "Where was Goebbels fighting Hitler on Vlasov?" WWS:

I don't know, but I'm pretty darn sure it was before 1943.

Later, when the question was repeated:

Well, I read it and it was prior to 1943; I can't give you the exact time.

On the following day, Nov. 16, on his own Sunday radio program (Faulty Towers), WWS came up with some information. He said at 15m30s:

If you go to the free download of David Irving's book Goebbels: Mastermind of the Third Reich, you will find that he mentions in more than a few places the FACT that Joseph Goebbels was fighting both Himmler and Adolf Hitler on the issue of using Vlasov and his Russian troops who swore off Bolshevism, being shot in the back a little too often, I guess … maybe that helps ...  but of course our genius German leaders didn't figure that out a few years earlier – unbelievable. [This last part in italic is gibberish with no meaning beyond distraction -cy]

And I don't blame them. The only thing I really blame Germany for – it's really not a case of blame, it's a FACT that they had no leaders of any stature who could convey to Hitler the importance ... except Dr. Joseph Goebbels, except for a minor detail: Goebbels had been philandering on his wife Magda with some Czech whore for quite awhile, particularly in the period '41, '42, 43 – the critical timing. [Wrong and a crucial mistake. The affair with 22 yr-old Czech actress Lida Baarova was in late 1937-early 1938, at which time Hitler ordered her out of Germany, back to Czechoslovakia. During the years Bob gives, Goebbels was actually rising in Hitler's esteem to the level of confidant. And this is according to David Irving!]

That is WWS's answer as to his "source." Except that he doesn't give any page numbers or quote what David Irving wrote "in more than a few places" in a pdf of almost 1000 pages. So Carolyn Yeager wrote to WWS on Tuesday afternoon (11-18) the following email:

Hello Bob,

I have so far found not a single reference to Vlasov in Irving's book Goebbels: Mastermind of the Third Reich, after going over the Prologue, Parts IV and V and the Epilogue. The only picture I found of Goebbels with Vlasov was taken in Feb. 1945. Yet he said nothing about it?

Would you back up your claims, please, by giving me the page numbers on which you said on your show that Vlasov was mentioned (several times) in Irving's book. There is no index on the pdf provided by Irving, nor does the Amazon page allow one to "look inside the book" for the index. Since it is made so difficult to find, it is really up to you, who makes the claim, to provide the evidence for your claim.

I will not drop this matter until I get to the bottom of it. After all, we must be ruthless when it comes to the truth.

Thanks very much,

Will WWS come up with the actual quotes and page numbers? So far I have not heard from him, and he is usually so prompt in answering. If anyone reading this is familiar with Irving's book and can supply this information, it would be very helpful.

One other question asked  of WWS on my program was: "Why does he so much want to postulate that Vlasov, a Slav and a Russian, would have won the war for Germany?" He didn't answer that.

About the interrupting:  WWS complained on his Sunday, Nov. 16 program that "he could not get a word in about Vlasov" because of interruptions by Carolyn Yeager. Well, I did make too many comments that legitimately bothered WWS, but I wanted him to stick with answering the questions I had brought up about his original program.

The fact is that WWS had more speaking time on my program during the time he was on it in the 2nd half than either caller Markus or me. Check it out and you will see. He just didn't use his time to clarify the issues at hand.

When WWS asked questions of Markus, M. answered them directly and briefly. When WWS asked a question of me, I also answered in as direct manner as I could. But when WWS is asked a question, he often doesn't answer it, instead wanting to hold forth on another subject which was not a part of his original "Nordic Myth" program.

Conclusion: Did David Irving write in his book on Goebbels what WWS says he did? It's there in black and white, so I have no doubt I will discover the answer shortly.

Update: The answer was supplied immediately by blutundboden in the comments below. Please read them.

Lieutenant General A. A. Vlasov in Germany during the war.

Go to Part 2


Carolyn,You can search terms in webpages, including most PDFs (unless they are scanned images), by holding down the "Ctrl" button and then pressing "F" or "G" (these are the two I'm aware of that work on my computer, I always us "F").I searched "Vlasov" and got four results, all located on page 770.

If WWS knew this, he could have given me the page number. He chose not to. Possibly because the reference is so weak compared to all he has made of it.

Here is where it begins on page 770:

Their unsettled policies toward the captive lieutenant-general Andrei Vlasov further illustrated this rift at the top. This renegade Russian offered to raise an army of fellow prisoners to overthrow bolshevism in Russia. Goebbels backed him; again Himmler and Hitler did not.43

When Hitler did grudgingly allow the project to go ahead, it was purely as a dishonest propaganda ploy.44

Goebbels’ radio stations thereupon took up Vlasov’s cause. After hearing one such broadcast on his automobile radio in July, Himmler wrote, ‘I forbid the S.S. once and for all to fall in, in any way whatsoever, with the entire bolshevik-Vlasov act which the Wehrmacht are staging and which the Führer has so clearly rejected.45 

And look what immediately happened:

On the very next day the Soviet government established near Moscow the mirror-image of the Vlasov movement—a Free Germany Committee under the communist writer Erich Weinert.46

Its members were a ragbag of captured German officers, Jews, and other emigrés; its first manifesto was signed by Goebbels’ old sparring partners in the Battle for Berlin, Walter Ulbricht and Wilhelm Pieck. Two months later the Russians formed a renegade League of German Officers—primarily those captured at Stalingrad like General Walter von Seydlitz.47

It certainly is NOT the major issue WWS made it out to be. Plus, his timing is off.

Footnote #43 is from Aug-Sept 1943

Footnote #44 is about damaged bombers

Footnote #45 is Unpublished, Diary, Sept 8 1943

Footnote #46 is from a Gutterer footnote on a talk with Milch, Sept 1st and a letter Sept 1 1943

Footnote #47 is Schnauff to Frankfurt gau, Jan 20 1944

Does it show that Goebbels was right? That he should have been able to overule Hitler as secondary leadership? It does show that Goebbels was not closed-out from Hitler in 1943 and some of his plans were approved.

I think it shows that Hitler was right, as usual, and avoided a potential disaster. Of course, we can never know, but WWS simply ASSUMES that Vlasov would have been successful and remained loyal.

Also of note is that following Goebbels' propaganda effort, the Soviets immediately launched their own propaganda campaign using German collaborators that is so well-known and I have written about in the past. For example, the Seydlitz affair. And General Paulus, even.

No, what this proves is how shallow WWS's understanding is, and how opportunistic he is in the "ideas he throws out" into the ring, much of which turns out to be disinformation, even if not intended as such. But it is motivated by a desire to discredit the Fuhrer, and the Fuhrer Principle.

I find it hilarious that Bob's guest "Pastor" Lindstedt is now running around calling him "Wailing Wall Stein". Why he gave that idiot any air time is beyond me.

for wanting to use Linstedt to attack me. Wall Stein instead of Wall Street - Linstedt calls everyone a jew.

Plus, no one else called in. I think he expected his chat roomers to call in and tear into me, but they didn't. He never prepares much material so he had to close the show.

But, you know, I don't want to be enemies with Bob. I am sorry the show deteriorated the way it did. Have to thank Markus for remaining so clear-headed.

Where can I download this show (the one with Wolf Wall Street)?  I heard his show on Sunday but I'd like to hear Carolyn's show where he appeared as a caller.  This one doesn't have an mp3 file that I can see.

Battle Dawn Description: Battle Dawn is a real time strategy game for the ultimate armchair warrior hell bent on the dream of world domination! The game starts out by letting you select a theme you would like to play under. Battle Dawn Mars is a futuristic theme with Sci Fi settings and gameplay. Battle Dawn Earth is for the modern warfare player, better to know what your working with seeing as you know todays technology and weaponry. Battle Dawn Fantasy is set in the medieval times with knights, magic and etc. You will start out by zooming into the map and setting up your colony in an unoccupied locations and immediately begin gather resources to grow your colony and gain power. You can make deals with other players and break them and betray them if you wish. Select a server that runs at your speed if you are a hardcore gamer then set the ticks to the max if you are more casual then tick 1 and you are good to go. Now stop reading it is time to battle on in Battle Dawn!