Saturday Afternoon with Carolyn: Hitler on Germans and Race in Platterhof Speech
August 2, 2014
Carolyn confronts the theory put out by Veronica Clark, based partly on Clark's reading of Adolf Hitler's "Platterhof Speech," that Germans are a mixed-race people.
- August 1st was the 70th Anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising, being commemorated by the Federal Republic of Germany as much as in Poland;
- Clark claims herself to be German even though only 5% biologically German;
- Clark received her Master's degree in military history from an online university;
- The talk to military officers at Platterhof in May 1944 was an effort by Hitler to instill the belief that a military victory was still possible if the necessary toughness could be demonstrated; weakness meant defeat;
- Hitler calls the Nordic the most valuable 'race nuclei' in the German people, along with other racial nuclei, which are sometimes called just 'races';
- Clark says German people's "bastardization" actually makes them more capable than more pure Northern races;
- Hitler was adamant that the presence and activity of Jews is the main factor in the ruin of societies;
- Emphasis on the importance of leadership, the hunt for leaders, and the demands made on leaders - abandonment of leadership being cowardice;
- The talk about race plays a small part in this speech and is not particularly important to the overall message.
Image: Platterhof Hotel complex on Obersalzberg in the 1940's during the time of the "speech."
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Comments
Alpine and Nordic
"Eastern" is obviously a too-literal translation of German ostisch, which really should be rendered as Alpine in English. (Westisch is what the Germans call the Mediterranean race.) Concern about the effect on the German genepool of Alpine admixture is found in H.S. Chamberlain and Alfred Rosenberg, who attribute some undesirable tendencies to Alpines. Official N-S materials and Adolf Hitler's statements for general public consumption however seem to avoid the matter.
Slav is not a race but an Aryan language-group. According to Lothrop Stoddard, the people called Slavs today are mostly of Alpine race. Other authors indicate that there is Mongoloid admixture in the Slavs (which in some of them is pretty obvious). On the other hand some nominal Slavs can be Nordic or Dinaric.
The canonic German races are five: Nordic, Phalian, Dinaric, Alpine, and Mediterranean. Among these five races only the Alpine ever seems to have been regarded in Germany as needing to be curtailed. (In Britain, it is not Alpines but Mediterraneans, i.e. Northern Atlantids, that Stoddard sees displacing the Nords.)
I think that the key to this concern with fostering the Nordic element can be found in Madison Grant's The Passing of the Great Race: Nordic men are the great soldiers of a nation, necessary for its military security.
You will need to do your own english translation Ms Yeager
Ms Yeager
I own the english copyright you possess on the speech. It's been filed with the US Copyright office. If you'd like the number I can provide it. It was copyrighted in 2009. Wilf gave it up to me and you need only ask him about that. I think you are the type of person that will honor this, as Wilf, Fritz and I are the ones who translated this and I paid for the copy from the IfZ which you may also attain. It is MA 316.
Norwich is not an online university. It has an online component is all. And it's a very difficult program. I challenge anyone to enroll and go through it.
Ms Clark
I removed the post.
I know what Norwich University is; I linked to its website and readers can learn about it for themselves.
You got your degrees via their "online component" so I think it's fair to say that your university was an online one. Level of difficulty is a matter of personal judgement. Here are some quotes from the Norwich site:
What is your great interest in the military and why did you select such a course of study over something more useful? Just to be different?
Yes, please provide the
Yes, please provide the number of the copyright you say you possess. Since you and Fritz did further work on the translation before it was published, just which version was copyrighted? I think you may be stretching your ownership rights a bit too far.
My latest information
The English-language translation that I possess was a freely given effort (for you) with no strings attached. IOW, the translator was not paid by you or anyone for his work, nor did he sign it (or any rights of his own concerning it) away to you as sole owner at any time.
You have stated elsewhere, Ms. Clark, that the translation you received from "Wilf" was so poor it was practically unreadable and you had to ask "Fritz" to improve upon it. Therefore, what you copyrighted for your book cannot be the same as the first raw translation that I have and have posted. I have not copied anything from your book, Hitler and Himmler Uncensored and have never even seen a real-life copy of your book.
So yes, I've gone ahead and put it up again in the interests of disseminating knowledge.
Interesting, Hadding
Why have I always thought of the Swiss as examples of the Alpine? The Swiss Alps? It has to be more than that!
But seriously, I never considered that Alpine meant Slav. These sub-racial concepts are not anything I have familiarized myself with, and I find it pretty tedious when I try to read about it. I get bored. (Maybe Hitler did too, lol) A lot of it comes accross as counter-intuitive for me.
Mixed Alpines
There is more Alpine admixture as you go farther south in Europe. This race did get its name from being found in the mountains. The Swiss and Austrians have a lot more Alpine in them than the northern Germans, but not pure Alpine. The Slavs are more Alpine than the Swiss generally. Lothrop Stoddard's Racial Realities in Europe gives a simplified overview.
Deutsche Tribes
http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_St%25C3%25A4mme
If you type in German tribes (Deutsche Stämme) in English, you mostly get results for Germanic tribes but not specifically German/Deutsch. German in German means Germanic, everything German is Deutsch...
So Wiki states the 6 Deutsche tribes:BavarianSwabianFrankianSaxonThuringianFrisian
Austrians are part of the Bavarian tribe. Dutch are part Saxon, part Frisian, hence Netherlands plural, including Belgium. Swiss are Swabian.
There are also so called Neustämme or New-Tribes, which are offsprings of the 6 core tribes within the Reich and several New-Tribes outside of the Reich. These New-Tribes do not qualify for sovereign distinctive tribes, yet show some unique differences. Offshoots in other words.
Märker, BrandenburgLausitzer, in the Central-East of today's East-GermanyMecklenburger, Obersachsen, what is Saxony today is really Upper-Saxony vs Lower-SaxonyPommern, Pomeranian Schlesier, Silesian Ostpreußen, East-Prussia
Germans outside the Reich are:Baltendeutschen, Baltic-GermansSudetendeutsche, Sudeten-GermansDonauschwaben, Danube-SwabiansSiebenbürger Sachsen, Transylvanian-SaxonsWolgadeutschen, Volga-Germans
„Stamm", „Nation“ und „Volk“ translate to gens, natio and populus in Latin or tribe, nation and people/folk in English.
gens (n.) tribe1847, in reference to ancient Rome, "tribe, clan, house (of families having a name and certain religious rites in common and a presumed common origin)," from Latin gens (genitive gentis) "race, clan, nation" (see genus).
nation (n.) c.1300, from Old French nacion "birth, rank; descendants, relatives; country, homeland" (12c.) and directly from Latin nationem (nominative natio) "birth, origin; breed, stock, kind, species; race of people, tribe," literally "that which has been born," from natus, past participle of nasci "be born" (Old Latin gnasci; see genus). Political sense has gradually predominated, but earliest English examples inclined toward the racial meaning "large group of people with common ancestry." Older sense preserved in application to North American Indian peoples (1640s). Nation-building first attested 1907 (implied in nation-builder).
populous (adj.) peopleearly 15c., from post-classical Latin populosus "full of people, populous," from populus "people" (see people (n.)). Related: Populousness.
folk (n.) Old English folc "common people, laity; men; people, nation, tribe; multitude; troop, army," from Proto-Germanic *folkom (cognates: Old Frisian folk, Middle Dutch volc, German Volk "people"), from Proto-Germanic *fulka-, perhaps originally "host of warriors;" compare Old Norse folk "people," also "army, detachment;" and Lithuanian pulkas "crowd," Old Church Slavonic pluku "division of an army," both believed to have been borrowed from Proto-Germanic. Old English folcstede could mean both "dwelling-place" and "battlefield."
In 1880, Theodor Mommsen suggested to include German Jews as a German tribe and not exclude any German tribe from the unity of Germany. This idea was rejected.
Svevi et Helvetii
My understanding is that the Swiss tribe is the Helwetii. Hence the Latin name for Switzerland is Confoederatio Helvetica, producing the suffix .ch for websites based in Switzerland. Swabia doesn't extend as far west as Switzerland.
Anyway the whole question of German tribes has nothing to do with German races. Tribes are traditional social divisions (each having its own dialect). Races are a matter of physical type.
Helvetii is a keltic tribe.
Helvetii is a keltic tribe. The germanic tribe of present Switzerland is the Alemannen.
There are 3 races (subspecies) of H. sapiens: caucasoid, mongoloid and negroid (negroids are perhaps another species, H. ergaster). The above mentioned nordics, alpines, etc are populations of the caucasoid subspecies.
zzzz
I am sorry that there is such widespread unfamiliarity with the flexibility of the term race. A race can be a descent-group of any size, ranging from a single family (as in "the race of Atreus") to a whole species ("human race").
Whether the Helwetii are Celtic or not, Switzerland is called the Helvetic Confederation.
Alemanni
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemanni
Alemanni means all men. It is either a group of Swabian sub-tribes or German tribes united in general, depending how it is applied. Many Romanic countries call Germany Alemanni as the French do.
Hadding is right, discussing the different tribes or interpretations (is Alemanni another tribe or another word for Swabian or Germans in general) does not change the fact, that they are one overall breed of people.
Veronica saying Germans are not much Nordic is absurd. Chinese or Blacks are not much Nordic, maybe 1% if at all? Germans are rather not much Mongol or African, 1% or so? I'm not expert on geneology, so don't quote me, but I think this is about correct...
race and Deutschland
Race in human-biology means subspecies.
Deutschland is made up of the caucasoid subspecies. The major caucasoid subspecies population in Deutschland is the germanic population. The major tribes of this germanic population today are Allemannen, Franken, Bayuvaren and Sachsen. The Franken historically became dominant.
Does Veronica suffer from Schizophrenia?
Unless she is going to start writing science fiction or fairy tales Veronica Clark's should stop listening to those voices inside of her head; they do have treatment available for that now. Her attempt to make Hitler look like some type of multiculturalist guru with black Nazi footsoldiers is right up there with Nazi UFOs and Hitler's escape to the North pole. I guess when your on the fringe your going to have company with a lot of mixed nuts and bananas. Unfortunately people like Veronica Clark provides the opportunity for our enemies to paint us all with a broad brush and label us as mentally ill.
populations and Deutschland
Deutschland is populated by only 1 race (subspecies). The breeding unit of a (sub)species is the population. The major population in (todays) Deutschland is germanic; however, there is a slavic population present, mainly in Brandenburg, the Sorben.
Terms such as "nordic, alpine, med, dinaric" etc are abstract constructs, at best traits or attiributes of populations of (sub)species, so an "alpine" group example of a keltic population could be the Helvetii, but, "alpines" don´t breed, populations do. Populations can be broken down into tribes; tribes into clans; clans into families.
Two Platterhof speeches
On the program Saturday, I spoke of Herman Giesler describing some meetings in Linz at the end of June 1944, arranged by Albert Speer. He said that this series of meetings ended with Hitler giving a speech at the Platterhof on the Obersalzberg. I had assumed this was the speech posted here, but the date is wrong. Hitler did give a speech there on July 4, 1944 on armament and industrial production, much shorter than this one. I came across it when looking for this longer Platterhof speech at http://nsl-archiv.com/Buecher/Fremde-Sprachen/Adolf%20Hitler%20-%20Colle...
The May 26 speech is not there. I have never been able to find it in any collection of Hitler's speeches.
As always with these programs, I learn more from my mistakes than from what I have said correctly.
Comment from Hadding
This is by "Hadding" and has been moved here from another page:
He is saying that only the Nordic element is of value for LEADERSHIP positions. He allows that the other racial elements have their special abilities. He says that there is a tendency for people unsuited for leadership to end up in such positions because their parents had money to send them to a university.
Veronica "Slick" Clark
Carolyn, just listened the archive, I am glad you are around to catch the 3rd rate shenanigans of the Veronica "Slick" Clarks of the world.
Her (hysterical) history addendums is to historical research what Martin Borman's editing was to Hitler's Table Talk.
Hi Northpal
For Hermann Giesler on Martin Bormann, and a few comments about him in addition, see http://carolynyeager.net/martin-bormann-close-personal
You just want to discredit Bormann because he was anti-Christian. :-)
Carolyn;
Carolyn;
Bormann because he was anti-Christian did he edit a few things to suit his tastes?
Is that discrediting him ?
If I were to transcribe your shows, editing any of your words or apply my contextual definitions to suit my tastes, would I be discredited ?
Northpal,
Northpal,
The question is then: Are you one of those who claim Bormann was a low-life thug and the Soviet mole at headquarters who gave away the Wehrmacht battle plans to the Reds? Or do you only mistrust Bormann when it comes to Table Talk?
hahaha Borman Soviet mole ?
hahaha Borman Soviet mole ? That's hilarious, he fought with Gerhard Roßbach, took out traitor Walther Kadow. I mean really, this man had the parts and was highly intelligent. But we all know his christianity thing, thats all, I find Clark's multicultral (I seriously believe she is a anti-white) thing in the same vain when putting a tilt on things. There is just so much pure crap about those guys, that just doesn't hold any water, doesn't make sense, the man had great character, guts, loyalty, ect.
Low life thug is a new one, that type of slander possibly comes from, I think, because he did farm work as a kid (and we know who have no skills or love for farming). I just cannot see the slightest possibility of Borman being any type of spy, or traitor.
As a matter of fact, since you asked that questin, are there many people who believe such nonsense ? I honestly haven't heard much of that. Now, Hitler being a Rothschild or he was a homo or he was crazy with syphillus, I have heard a lot of that jew spew over the years.
By the way, I enjoy the table talks readings and discussions I have heard, and I sense a you have a bit of a crush on Uncle Adolph. hahahaha. I guess a man's great admiration for Hitlers true being could be called a "man crush", hahaha.
Low-life thug is the way
Low-life thug is the way VClark describes him (not necessarily in those words) and even worse. But if you read Daily Stormer, you will see all the Christians there claiming Bormann was a traitor. Whoever is not a professing Christian is suspect to these guys. So I'm very glad you don't see it that way.
I may be naive, but I think Bormann took his service to Hitler so seriously that he would not alter his words. I also think he didn't need to. But if Christians who like Hitler want to think so (within reason), that's alright with me.
P.S. Thanks for mentioning Rossbach and Kadow - I refreshed myself as to who they were.
Just a little something to
Just a little something to consider, anyone who identifies as a "christian", as if it is some how a new or subrace makes them suspect. True Christianity is only a spiritual belief or view that provides either some type of moral code, community code, attempt at explanation of creation or the author of creation. True Christianity is for warriors, forget all the mistranslations ect of bible verses ect. As if what ever bible you read is not tampered, incomplete, or you just have misunderstood a symbolism or intent of the lesson. Remember it like most ancient concepts of spiritual things, they went a long time of handed down traditions verbally. The deeper meanings are definitely racial and rebellion of foreign submission. Those National Socialists of Germany who built the third Reich are definitely in that vein, true warriors and protectors of their volk. They sacrificed everything, youth, personal comforts, frivolous relationships and indulgencies, wealth, the list is too great to even contemplate.
I am not German and by no means think "everything German is the cats ass", but those men of that time were special, and that could be extended to most of the citizens. Because if most of the German citizens of that time were not in some way special (Hitler built the platform for it to be brought out) , the NASDP would never have gotten passed 1923 and Hitler and the rest would have been trivialized, outlawed, jailed, and murdered.
I honestly see the few freedoms we might have, are the direct result of the German sacrifice. The hope in hell we may have, is the honor and duty we are either going to live up to or perish. Germany's sacrifice must never be forgotten, nor squandered, else we deserve what we get.
Clark vs Bormann
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkhCQS0Bmj0 for VC's agenda against Bormann -- a man whom Hitler relied on. But of course Hitler was such a fool.
VC gets it all from Louis Kiltzer - http://www.amazon.com/Louis-C.-Kilzer/e/B001H6SM1U
Mein Kampf Study Hour?
Hi Carolyn, Have you and Hadding considered rolling out a Mein Kampf Study Hour?
No, we haven't, and I don't
No, we haven't, and I don't plan to. It's so very well known already. Table Talk (with Ray Goodwin) still has a long way to go.