A major monument honoring Poles in the center of Berlin? Never!

Published by carolyn on Sat, 2019-07-06 09:02

In Central Berlin, the entrance to the memorial built to commemorate alleged crimes of the National-Socialist government (1933-1945) that never occurred. More of the same is now being proposed for Poles.


By Carolyn Yeager

HOW TO CONQUER the Germans … one way or the other. The Poles were never able to reach the 'promised land' in their historical quest to conquer and occupy Berlin, but they will never stop trying. The latest plan is to have the German government build a major monument to them as “victims of Nazism” in the center of Berlin, on a par with the memorials to the allegedly murdered Jews, the Sinti-Roma and the Homosexuals that currently take up large amounts of prime space in the German capital near the Reichstag. These are cultural groups that existed within Germany, at least, while the Poles are a foreign national population on foreign soil. What nation with any self-respect puts up a monument in the center of their capital city memorializing their enemy in a previous war? None that I know of.

For bad Germans, there can never be enough reminders that the National-Socialist period in Germany was the most heinous, evil period in world history … and it can never be allowed to be repeated. Many in Germany who feel this way are trying to push the idea of a monument into a full-fledged initiative to be discussed in the Bundestag. Some of them are: Florian Mausbach, former president of the Federal Office for Building and Regional Planning; Rita Süssmuth, former CDU Bundestag President; Wolfgang Thierse, Süssmuth's successor; and Dieter Bingen, director of the Darmstadt-based German Poland Institute.

All these individuals have an interest in helping to advance this project.

Florian Mausbach has played a decisive role in the building culture of the federal capital Berlin through his involvement in numerous urban development and architectural competitions. He benefits from all such projects.

Süssmuth is a member of the very Jewish-based European Council on Tolerance and Reconciliation established in 2008 to “monitor tolerance in Europe and prepare recommendations to European governments and IGOs on fighting xenophobia and anti-semitism.” I did a podcast in 2015 on this organization that I think was very good.

Wolfgang Thierse is a leftist member of the Social Democrat Party, born in 1943 and growing up in East Germany.

Dieter Bingen has always been partial to Slavic countries, initially Czechoslovakia, he says. In the course of his studies, Poland moved ever more into the focus of his attention, and he did research at institutes in Warsaw and Poznan. He has stated that a memorial to Polish victims of World War II in Germany would recognize that "German aggression and extermination policy began in Poland on September 1, 1939, and not just with the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941."

Another backer of the plan is the German government. The Foreign Ministry, under the horrible Social Democrat Heiko Maas, said in a statement that “the federal government has long supported a civil society initiative to erect a Polish monument in the center of Berlin to commemorate the Polish victims of the 1939-1945 German occupation."

Fortunately, the final decision rests with German lawmakers, and they include the Alternative for Germany party faction. The first discussion in parliament at the beginning of the year did not end with a concrete result, it is said. So in early May, lawmakers from five parliamentary groups published an appeal in the Tagesspiegel newspaper.

Alexander Müller, Dietmar Nietan, Thomas Nord, Manuel Sarrazin and Paul Ziemiak wrote:

"It is our task to keep alive the memory and remembrance of the German war of annihilation against Poland and the National Socialist occupation and to give commemoration a space … a suitable place dedicated to the victims of war and occupation in Poland, to serve as memory, enlightenment, understanding and the reduction of prejudice."

They are now trying to win support in parliament for the project.

It's pretty odd that after all the Federal Republic has already given away to Poland since 1945, they must still be the ones to do more to 'bring about understanding and reduce prejudice', while the Polish government does absolutely nothing but take.

It goes without saying the German initiative for a memorial was welcomed in Poland. "Germans want a monument to Poland," wrote the left-liberal Gazeta Wyborcza. The national-conservative government, led by the Law and Justice (PiS) party, also viewed the project favorably.

In fact, we are told that in Poland the politicians are even showing signs of impatience for the project to get underway. Can you believe that?! Yes, of course you can.

Comments

The Germans will always be kept down.

when will you throw off the chains of your enemies and seek out your own destiny? When will your people produce great classical music, art, literature, architecture, far advances into the world of science and engineering again? Gemany has always been at the front of the line until the all lies beat the Fatherland into submission and brainwashed the surviving citizens into accepting ideas and values foreign to their way of life. Look at any person of German heritage or citizenship and what will you see? Extremely intelligent, beautiful adults and children, hard working, industrious, meticulous and exacting in all fields of work. I hope to live long enough to see a truly free Germany where all the freedoms including freedom of speech is a way of life and not dictated by people in power that  have no interest in the welfare of the people. 

Thanks Dennis. There is a way - if a majority of Germans would vote for the Alternative (AfD) party. Things would begin to change right away.

Anyway, I hope they will be strong enough to prevent that Poland memorial from becoming reality.

AFD - jewish-controlled party will never be a solution.
Quote from David Hoggan - revisionist hero (author Forced War - one of the most important books in recent times):
"In politics it is always better to take no loaf than half a loaf."
Tell me how party affiliated with Jews can be a solution?
There are no hope, no chance of escaping the trap that constructed corrupt criminal Allied farce so-called Federal Republic of Germany.
Sorry for my english, I'm from Poland.

"You're from Poland" ... that's why you don't want to see Germany break free.

In Poland, your Prime Minister is a full Jew who supports all holocaust lies against Germany. Maybe you should work on your own political parties.

"AfD - NOT Jewish controlled".
These pictures say otherwise:
 https://cdn.jns.org/uploads/2018/10/IMG_2394-1-880x495.jpg
 
 https://custodela.club/wp-content/uploads/afd-israel-526x330.jpg
 
"The right-wing party Alternative for Deutschland (AfD), which has previously called for a total ban of the BDS Movement, abstained from the vote, as many members felt it did not go far enough. The Guardian quoted AfD MP Jürgen Braun as saying, “anti-semitism comes from the left and Islam.” AfD has consistently sided with jewish interests in the past."
 
Comment on Renegade Tribune with I fully agree:
 *snip* [comment from unknown person not relevant - cy]

 
"... that's why you don't want to see Germany break free."
 
You are at fault, I would love to see Germany back to her greatness with restored back stolen lands by Czechs and Poles (western Czech territory, Stettin, Danzig and Breslau). I recommend revisionist book that demolish Polish and Allied lies and you think I am a enemy of Germany? Poles like to show themselves like a innocent victims and demand reparations from Germany, but the truth is otherwise. Poland is responsible for outbreak WWII and should pay war indemnities. It is the Poland that refused to negotiate (Hitler two times delayed offensive explained to his generals that he needed time for negotiation). Danzig was main theme in this conflict - city which was pure German (96 % of its inhabitants were Germans and every vote indicated this). Poles didn't respect minorities pact signed in november 1937 - German schools were closed, German lands expropriated, German workers were dismissed from jobs without benefit payments.
 
 *snip* long quotes from somewhere on German-Polish history - [not relevant to topic -cy]
 
"In Poland, your Prime Minister is a full Jew who supports all holocaust lies against Germany."
 
I don't support Mateusz Morawiecki and his staff.
It is illegal to deny Holocaust in Poland, so I don't write about this topic.
 
"Maybe you should work on your own political parties."
 
In Poland I don't have a party that represent my thoughts - I don't support PIS, PO, Nowoczesna,Wiosna, PSL, SLD, Kukiz, Ruch Narodowy, liberal Korwin or any other party. I'm 30 years old and never participated in national elections.

These pictures say otherwise:

No, those pictures DO NOT say otherwise. Do you not know the meaning of the word "controlled?" Having a few Jews join your party and forming their own little block within it does not equate to "control." You excuse yourself because 'holocaust denial' is against the law in Poland; it's also against the law in Germany, as is any form of discrimination or exclusion against Jews. If AfD denied Jews membership, their party would be banned as anti-constitutional. There would be no party.

The Guardian article quotes one AfD MP out of about 90. It's his opinion. The AfD IS however pro-Israel, anti-Muslim. That does not make them "controlled-opposition," as they're only following the law. If they want to be in government they have to be law-abiding.

"You are at fault"

How am I at fault for you taking extreme positions that can't go anywhere? You reject all parties so I guess you think you will carry out a violent revolution. You are a troll who is up to no good. You don't support any political parties - fine - then what do you do?

I'm not going to give you any more space for this kind of anonymous trolling.

 I found a good book on life in occupied Poland, 'The New Order in Poland' (1942) by Simon Segal. I say good because, while Segal doesn't paint a flattering picture of the Germans, he doesn't allege that the Germans gassed the Jews. (Most wartime books don't mention it at all, the main exception being books written by the Polish Government in Exile or Jews such as Rafael Lemkin). The word 'gas' or 'gas chamber' doesn't appear in the book, and 'extermination' - in the sense of mass murder - only appears in the introduction, which was written by an American.
 
That's as good as it gets for books written on Poland in the war.
 
I like these passages on the banning of the ritual slaughter of animals in occupied Poland.
 
Reading this account of the behaviour of North African immigrants in today's Germany, I'm sure that many Germans would like Hans Frank back. But they can't say so...

The Poles are almost as good at playing the victim as the Jews, and are equally reticent admitting their own past crimes. When do the Poles admit guilt for the forced uprooting and transfer of the Carpatho-Rusyn/Lemko/Ruthenian people from their ancestral home in southern Poland (Polish claimed land, anyway) to Ukraine after the war ended in what was known as Operation Vistula? Entire vilages depopulated and razed (admittedly some were left to stand) with the housing of horses and farm animals in Orthodox churches, and the deaths of some who resisted. When do they admit this attrocity let alone make repartions for it? Don't hold your breath.

To Carolyn,
 
I was stunned when I read your article about the Polish memorial in Berlin. Hadn't heard of such a proposal before. After the first monster possibly a second one in the middle of the German capital. Germans who discuss such an absurdity simply ignore the common history with Poland.  After reading it, it took me 24 hours to find my composure again.
 
I am not a friend of the AFD, but perhaps this is the only - but lengthy - way to regain our sovereignty as a German nation.  There are many stumbling blocks in the way. We would be truly sovereign if we could also succeed in loosening the firm grip of the chosen ones.

Klaus - the grip of the chosen ones is a lot harder to loosen than people's allegiance to their old political parties. That's because it's world-wide.

But what you could do is campaign among Germans why such a monument would be a terrible insult to Germany--rather than a gracious gesture. Germany has already made plenty of gracious gestures. Enough is enough.

Well, if there exists a convincing amount of historical revisionism that can prove that the crimes described in the two Wikipedia articles : "Nazi crimes against the Polish nation" and "War crimes in occupied Poland during World War II" never happened (and not in the form of a cheap statement : "Jews and Poles always lie"), what is stopping the revisionist community to plead their case to the German Government, or at least the AfD? Does such revisionism about Poland exist?

I recall that I already answered you on the first of those Wikipedia pages. I went through it and showed that the sources were almost all Polish, and therefore biased. Plus they were not reliable. I'm not going to repeat myself just because you lazily bring up this page time and again as somehow proving something.

What you need to do is present a single claimed incident of "Nazi crimes" and the proof or evidence you have, and I will answer that. In the meantime, I can confront you with Polish crimes against their German population -- not from Jewish & Polish Wikipedia -- and you can respond to those. https://wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/atrocities/pagmp000.html

"What is stopping the revisionist community to plead their case to the German Government ..."

The current 'leader' of the revisionist community might most likely be Germar Rudolf. He has already spent over 2.5 years in a German prison for doing just that. Currently, 90-year old Ursula Haverbeck and 50-some year old Sylvia Stolz are also serving 2 year prison sentences for doing the same. Their revisionism encompasses Poland. That's what stops them - the German Government won't hear it.

The German Left tries it's best to damage the AfD by touting false controversy/fake news: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-conflict-in-afd-pulling-party-to-the-right/a-49501455

It all comes down to propaganda! Most people don't know that during the expulsion of Germans from their homes in what is now Poland, hundreds of thousands of  Germans were sadistically hacked up to pieces! 100% taboo subject!
The Poles are always the victims, we're told!

I think "hundreds of thousands hacked to pieces" is quite an exaggeration. Evidence? But it was a crime against the Germans that is portrayed as being "deserved" by them. Yet the Poles brought on the German invasion of their country which to my mind they deserved.

In the end, putting up a monument to Polish victims in Berlin will only exacerbate old hatreds and accusations.

June 5, 2019.  A stone sculpture that demeans Jews will remain in place at a Church in eastern Germany, a local district court ruled on May 24, squashing a suit by a German Jew to have it removed.

The complainant, Michael Düllmann, argued that the "Jew-Sow" (Judensau), bas-relief, which shows Jewish characters suckling a female pig while a rabbi inspects its posterior, was anti-Semitic and insulting to the Jewish community.

It hangs at the Church of St. Mary in the town of Wittenberg, regarded as the cradle of the Protestant reform — Martin Luther, the father of Protestantism, first preached in German there — and a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

[...]

The German nationalist AfD (Alternative for Germany) party has petitioned to keep it in place.

___________________________________

Doesn't sound like AfD can be "jewish-controlled" to me. What they are is determined to respect factual German history, which is what we need. Read the whole article here:  https://international.la-croix.com/news/german-court-rules-in-favor-of-anti-semitic-statue/10257#

Just what we need, another monument to victims...like that ugly Holocaust memorial, which  German Chancellor Schroeder (before Merkel) derided...one of the few things I liked about him.  I'm getting tired of hearing about the poor Poles. First of all, they stole Pomerania, Silesia, and East Prussia, and should give it back. When Stalin and Hitler partitioned Poland in 1939, Stalin took back millions of Ukrainians who had been assigned to Poland after the Versailles treaty. Also, for all of Poland's weeping about Nazis, when Hitler took over the Sudeteland, the Poles happily took off a slice of it.
 
I don't doubt some terrible atrocities were comitted by the Nazis against the Poles, and I think Hitler should have cultivated Poland as an ally. A Wehrmacht invading Russia with a few hundred thousand Poles by their side would have been much better. I just get tired of Poles wanting reparations, money, this, that...like everyone in Europe. Germany is their milch cow.
 
I read a book, Faust's City, a supposed history of Berlin written by some 'smart' New York woman. It's 700 pages spent 400 on Nazis. Nazis, Nazis...and the opening chapters asserted Berlin originally belonged to Poland. It was no surprise her boyfriend was Polish. That book was insufferable.
 
Poland and Germany have had a troubled relationship, but as Sebastian Haffner aserted in his history of Prussia, they actually worked well together for a long time, and if you recall Teodor Fontane's novel Vor Der Sturm, Prussian and Polish artistocratic families got along.
I recall what Hans Schmidt wrote in SS Panzergrenadier: ''The Polish elite still suffers from delusions of grandeur, and their leaders forget that history has placed their unfortunate nation in the vise of Germany on one side and Russia on the other. Under these circumstances, Poland can never be truly independent.' He also added how Poles like to claim Germans like Copernicus as one of their own. Schmidt went on: '...they (Poland) always seem to look for friends abroad: in the nineteeneth century it was the French Government; before World War II among the British, and just now (in 2001), they believe the United States is the gauantor of their independence.' Schmidt felt the U.S. would dump Poland in a heartbeat if it's in our interests, and the current adulation of Poland for America is sad...the neocons seem determined to build Poland as a 'buffer' against Russia. Ft. Trump?  I note how the Jews really inserted themselves in the Polish state since the 1600s, and seem to do so now.
 
I don't dislike Poles personally, but I get tired of their nationalistic sniping, and now wanting to stick this damned memorial in Berlin...and of course, they'll want more money, won't they? 
 
At least in Berlin they've almost rebuilt the old Schloss. That's the kind of architecture they need in Berlin.

"I don't doubt some terrible atrocities were comitted by the Nazis against the Poles, and I think Hitler should have cultivated Poland as an ally."

You've really missed the boat with this sentence in an otherwise very solid comment. If you don't know what the atrocities were you shouldn't assume there must have been some just because the Poles-Jews-Allies say so.The Poles wanted war with Germany in 1939 and they were soundly defeated. They got what they deserved from that, no more, no less.

I've already given this link once on this page, but here it is again for you: Polish atrocities on Germans -- https://wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/atrocities/pagmp000.html -- and these are documented!

Hitler did work very hard at cultivating Poland as an ally, from 1933 on -- how did you miss that?! Read chapters 2 and 3 in David Hoggan's book, http://jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/David%20Hoggan-The%20Forced%20War.pdf

Thanks.

@Carolyn
We share similar views regarding history and you labelled me as a troll, because I don't trust AFD. You labelled me as a troll, because I don't trust our political system, because I don't trust any political party.  How many Poles do you know that admit Poland is responsible for outbreak WWII? How many Poles do you know that admit Poland should pay war indemnities? How many Poles do you know that are sympathise to NS Germany (that applies to me) ? "Hitler did work very hard at cultivating Poland as an ally, from 1933 on -- how did you miss that?! Read chapters 2 and 3 in David Hoggan's book, http://jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/David%20Hoggan-The%20Forced%20War.pdf"
I recommended this book in my first comment here. In my opinion it is the most important book regarding German-Polish relations in pre war years. You removed my quote (derived from above mentioned book) describing these quotes as not relevant to topic - which is curious to me. These quotes depict ordeal and sufferings Germans (forced marches to interior Poland and dismissing from job) in last days before WWII. I'm sure majority people here (nearly 90 %) don't know about these facts.
Regarding German-Polish relations I recommend also de Colonna's book Poland from the inside (especially chapter about Danzig - Polish name Gdańsk).
https://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/polandins...
U. Walendy's book Truth for Germany is also very good book that shed different light on "Germany aggressive intentions".
"The Poles wanted war with Germany in 1939 and they were soundly defeated. They got what they deserved from that, no more, no less."
I agree with this opinion.
"...because the Poles-Jews-Allies say so."
Vast majority contemporary so-called historians aren't interested in searching the truth, they are primarily interested in slander Hitler and NS Germany.
"I've already given this link once on this page, but here it is again for you: Polish atrocities on Germans -- https://wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/atrocities/pa... -- and these are documented!"
Pictures show murdered Germans (in many cases women, people very young and very old), but majority of the Polish people still think in "Bloody Sunday" {Bydgoszcz (German name Bromberg) and its neighbouring villages} Polish army fought against rebellion staged by SS transferred from Danzig.
@S. Clark
In most cases these atrocities were reprisal against partisan activities. Guerilla warfare is forbidden by martial law, so these activities are against law.
"To restore “public order and safety” in an occupied territory is no easy task under any conditions, but nearly impossible when faced with a well organized resistance as was the case in Poland from September 1939 on, and later in the Soviet Union. In addition to the above Hague Rules, here is what “The United States Rules of Warfare” states, in part:“§ 12. Uprisings in occupied territories.If the people of a country or any portion thereof, already occupied by an army, rise against it, they are violators of the laws of war, and are not entitled to their protection.§ 348. Hostilities committed by individuals not of armed forces.Persons who take up arms and commit hostilities without having complied with the conditions prescribed by the laws of war for recognition as belligerents are, when captured by the injured party, liable to punishment as war criminals.”

I'm aware of all this, but what point are you trying to make? That you want Germany and Poland to be friends? Ostensibly, between current governments, they are friends. That you're mainly anti-Jewish above all else? That you want to register your opposition to AfD? Those pictures you linked to were meaningless, as I pointed out. Jews don't control AfD. So promoting that idea will get pushback from me because it's damaging to Germany's well-being. You have not stated any positive plans or ideas for Germany to move forward. I believe the AfD party is very, very important for Germans now, and trashing it seems to be counter-productive to the point of maliciousness.

I follow that party very carefully. I'm quite sure you don't. Apart from the AfD, what options for more freedom of information do Germans have? They are aligned with the other 'populist' European parties and every one of these parties says they oppose antisemitism and work with Israel. Every one of them! Because they really can't do otherwise and stay legal in Europe today.

If you want to denounce the AfD, you'll need to give some valid reasons backed up with real information. If I don't think your comment meets those standards, I won't publish it. Long quotes are not favored; better to link to the information.

@Carolyn
Sorry for delay.
"...but what point are you trying to make?"
I generally focus on history, I want to expose Jewish and Allied lies and I will fight for true history.
 
"Ostensibly, between current governments, they are friends."
Cooperation between jewish-controlled goverments doesn't matter. In the future I envisage mutual cooperation between Germany and Poland based on equal terms. Maybe in the future I will establish my own party - it is tough task if you don't have enough financial back-up and media coverage.
 
"I believe the AfD party is very, very important for Germans now..."
I was a little bit too harsh towards AFD, you are right they are very important for Germans now. There are no viable alternatives to AFD, so patriotic Germans don't have other choices than vote for AFD. Obviously they are much better than CDU, SPD, Die Linke or Grüne.
 
"They are aligned with the other 'populist' European parties and every one of
these parties says they oppose antisemitism and work with Israel. Every one of them!"
I'm aware of this. Year ago AFD leader Gauland described Hitler's tenure as "damned years". True German patriot should avoid these remarks.
 
"I follow that party very carefully. I'm quite sure you don't."
You are right, I don't follow AFD very carefully.
 
"That you're mainly anti-Jewish above all else?"
Jews pose a main threat to western world (they promote miscegenation, homosexuality and degeneration our society), so you are right.
Rather irritating Polish filmmaker Patryk Vega - his surname doesn't sound Polish and he looks like a Jew - actually works on film about politics. This movie mocks and really attacks PIS image. He deride party leader Jarosław Kaczyński' s love for cats, he accused very known party member of homosexuality. Film feature also never explained Skoki Wołomin's gate. This movie will make its premiere in September, month before national elections - coincidence?
 
Few days ago PO member added - and other members followed - on twitter mistakenly new hashtag "TwójSzwab" (your Swabian) instead of "TwójSztab" (your staff). Szwab is in Polish language derogatory form of Germans. This happened in situation when PO members are consistently accused of being subservient to Germany. Poland is divided in two hostile camps that hate each other and polarisation progress further. Jewish strategy - divide and rule.

Year ago AFD leader Gauland described Hitler's tenure as "damned years". True German patriot should avoid these remarks.

Yes, I know and I don't like that either. However, he's also said that all of Germany's history should be allowed to be learned and talked about, not supressed and illegal. That is a much better position than the current criminalization. Gauland is always attacked by the left.

Those like Gauland sincerely do not wish to return to anything like the Third Reich, but just as sincerely want Germany to be German, not multi-cultural or foreign-dominated. That's good enough for me.

He's also supportive of Bjorn Hoecke, who many in the party want to kick out for being a "nazi." Recently I watched a speech by Hoecke that was later criticized by the establishment moderates as being too inflamatory. After his speech, Gauland walked out on the stage with a couple of other party people, and G and H shook hands, smiling and showing solidarity. That's takes courage and Gauland has courage. He's a good man and strong leader ... too bad he's so old. I don't think he can be replaced. Like Trump.

Carolyn: I was expecting a reproof from you, and I accept it. I need to read more about the problems of the German Polish border from 1920-1939. The incident at Gleiwitz, where it was said Germans dressed as Poles initiated the attack. I will read into it, and it's such a testament of faith that to challenge it is heresy. 
 
So much has been ignored about the border problem. Many of the Freikorps were organized to conteract the Poles, and yet nothing is told about this. I read a book, The German Wars, by  Goodspeed, a Canadian historian, one of whose major arguments was WWI was chiefly caused by France, who wanted to get back Alsace-Lorraine at all costs.  Also, he noted how ruthless and bloody the Serbian government was, not the 'Little Servia' the British portrayed as an innocent little country.
 
Our big problem is there is no history taught. WWII is less history then demonology. 
 
When I was in college, I remember one older German professor who was absolutely furious about the treatment of Germans in the Sudetenland and Poland after WWII. He was just livid over what happened and was never talked about. The rest of the faculty regarded him as a bit weird.
 
Concluding, I'd like to give this quote  in Paul Johnson's Modern Times:
'On 10 Janaury 1946 the Tory MP and diarist 'Chips' Channon attended a society wedding in London and remarked to another guest, Lady 'Emerald' Cunard, how quickly normal life had been resumed. "After all," I said, pointing to the crowded room, "this is what we have been fighting for." "What," said Emerald, "are they all Poles?"'

Your quote is very funny - thanks.

I think my article on the Gleiwitz Affair is pretty thorough: https://carolynyeager.net/gleiwitz-%E2%80%9Cfalse-flag%E2%80%9D-incident... You can of course compare it with others.

Great Britain, France and Russia-Serbia have all been blamed, separately, for being mostly responsible for starting WWI. But I'd say it was all three conspiring together, although England was the main string-puller -- as I see it right now. Not one of them would have fought Germany all by themselves.

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