The Heretics' Hour: Carolyn, Tan and Hadding confab on “The White Question”

Tanstaafl

August 27, 2013 at 1:37 am

MP3s of the Sunic/Fraser interview: part 1 and part 2. (I’d link the program pages but the WordPress portion of VoR is down.)

William Pierce’s Who We Are: a Series of Articles on the History of the White Race. My discussion of portions of this work are The Racial Roots of Europeans – Part 1 and Part 2.

Markus

August 27, 2013 at 3:34 am

Many good points were made in this conversation by all three.

I think the problem, why Whites can’t unite is the anti-German Zeitgeist. Anglo-Saxons are Germans, so are Scandinavians and the Flemish and Dutch etc, but they deny it as good as possible. (Deutsche obviously can’t deny that, but Austrian-Germans also do it to a large extent).

Protestantism originated in the heart of Germany and the Holy Roman Empire was a Catholic Theocracy in the center of Europe.

How can the Germanic people unite as Pan-Germanists or Germanic Pan-Christians if the heartland of the tribes is portrayed as the devil himself, let alone coorporate with the more distant White brothers (the Romanics and Slavs)? Slavs in particular after all they did to the Germans, whether or not the Jews gave them the order to do so.

The same applies to a revival of Germanic Odinism or anything else. Germany’s “stain of the character” effects all Germans (Pan-Germanists) and Whites in general.

It’s a catch 22, and the answer is right in front of everyone’s eyes. Yet, everybody is programmed to look for answers elsewhere. Time will tell. Germany had to go through the Weimar Republic disaster with hyperinflation, degeneracy etc pp, before it purified.

Goethe said, “I (Mephisto) [the Jew] am a part of such force, that always wants Evil, and always creates Good (in Aryans).

Ich bin ein Teil von jener Kraft, die stets das Böse will und stets das Gute schafft.

bogeygoy

August 27, 2013 at 8:36 am

The fourth type (in the bottom right-hand corner) isn’t White, nor European; it clearly reads “Turk” below in the caption. I hope this wasn’t the first that came up in Google. The “East Baltic” type is also outdated, as there are several more Eastern European types; the one shown would be more accurately described as being Ladogan, typical of some of the Fenno-Ugric/Uralic (e.g. Finns, Estonians and so forth) and Tatar peoples (e.g. Lipka Tatars in Poland).

Carolyn

August 27, 2013 at 11:19 am

You’re so right, bogeygoy. The reason I used that image as is (with the Turk) is because it came that way. It’s part of a group of 8 which was too wide (too big) for our format, and the best I could do was to cut away half of it, and this was the better half. So it’s just to give an idea of the variety among Euro people. Coming up with an image for certain show topics can be pretty fruitless and time-consuming; I finally have to stop looking and just take something. I could have used MLK but who wants his black face on there?! I am aware of the flaws you mention, but I thank you for pointing it out (since others have no doubt noticed the same things) and for the information on the “Ostbaltisch” woman.

And then, there are those who want Turkey to become part of the EU.

PS. I changed the image description to read Three (and a Turk) instead of Four.

Markus

August 27, 2013 at 3:19 pm

It’s a depiction if the Caucasian races.

Meyers Blitz-Lexikon (Leipzig, 1932) divides Caucasian or “Caucasoid” types into: the Nordic, Dinaric, Mediterranean, Alpine, East Baltic, Turanid, Arabid, and Irano-Afghan.

White Europeans are a subgroup of Caucasoids.

Carolyn

August 27, 2013 at 3:42 pm

Okay, and this image shows the Nordic, Dinaric, East Baltic and Turanid. Thanks Markus.

SpaceGhost

August 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm

I think Carolyn is right in that paganism is too far removed to touch our people’s hearts. Also, if there ever is a change in the feelings and attitudes of whites it will be a populist grassroots movement. The elites are firmly under control. It would be wise to remember that when designing our propaganda and not become to deep or esoteric.

Steven

August 27, 2013 at 7:00 pm

I am scotish,english,german and a dane. Why should I hate germans?
Through my mother and her ancestors I am part german and a dane.
My fathers people are from southern scotland and northern england.
I am of the R1b haplogroup, blood type O neg. I have blond hair and blue grey eyes. If and when I can afford to live in the country I was born in I would want a woman of my race for a wife. I am sick and tired of how the so called white world is being run. Things must change.

flippityfloppity

August 28, 2013 at 7:16 pm

nationality vs heritage

if i have german parents but born and raised in Italy, speak only Italian, serve in the Italian armed forces and remain steadfast loyal to italy – what significance does my heritage or lineage play?

The west’s white problem is the accommodations made for the other to express, define, prefer and raise otherness above his loyalty to the nation state. Once America embraced recognition of a “white” society [regardless if it was generated originally by whites (ie, the Founders) or others (ie, Boasians)], the other had his legal and moral argument to promote the viability of otherness – the anti-white. By identifying and actualizing difference the American model was able to be spun on its legal head.

There is no equality desired by otherness. there is simply will to power.

Gil Martin

August 29, 2013 at 4:20 am

Keep It Simple Stupid. WHITE PRIDE WORLD WIDE. I agree with Tom Sunic. We do not have time for petty nationalism. The enemy is inside the gates. They are taking our land, our jobs and our women. When I am in Paris people assume I’m French, in Munich – German, in Oslo – Norwegian etc. This is because I look like them. We are of the same blood. Once we have deloused our countries we can go back to our petty family feuds. UNITE AND FIGHT or squabble and die.

Luc

August 29, 2013 at 8:52 am

The discussion was good but could have been better. Tanstaafl’s typical nordicist (fake) arrrogance along with some of his theories are difficult to listen to without laughing. Speaking from experience, many active European nationalsts are getting tired of the American “tanstaafl’s” who consistently parse the white race, misinterpret European books and national histories, and intentionally or not sew seeds of discord at a time when unity amongst the white race is pivitol. There are true leaders out there doing great things (not just talking) and we need to move past the meely mouthed clowns. Carolyn once again you are a joy to listen to.

Carolyn

August 29, 2013 at 9:34 am

Gil – It is nationalism that will stand up to the enemy inside the gate, and throw them out. It is only nationalist states that have done it! WHITE PRIDE WORLDWIDE is like an umbrella slogan but it has no active arm, no functioning political power. And just what is Tom Sunic’s great accomplishment that we should listen to him?

And what is WHITE PRIDE WORLDWIDE doing about this: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/city-dedicates-13th-avenue-memory-holocaust-hero
and this: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/mastercard-says-it-will-cease-doing-business-hate-groups-2013-08-28-183000
Two things I just now happened upon. The national people have to bring down these jews, no one else can do it.

Tanstaafl

August 29, 2013 at 11:09 am

Luc,

typical nordicist (fake) arrrogance

many active European nationalsts are getting tired of the American “tanstaafl’s” who consistently parse the white race, misinterpret European books and national histories, and intentionally or not sew seeds of discord at a time when unity amongst the white race is pivitol

You don’t practice what you preach about discord. You also misrepresent my position.

I acknowledge the importance and even primacy of European ethnic and national identities. I favor a broader, deeper racial education and understanding of identity, specifically aimed at minimizing infighting.

I referred to Gobineau’s The inequality of human races and Pierce’s Who We Are: a Series of Articles on the History of the White Race.

Can you provide an example of something you think I misinterpret?

Tanstaafl

August 29, 2013 at 3:19 pm

Limbaugh slams the South, praises MLK, Southern Nationalist Network.

Luc

August 29, 2013 at 5:18 pm

Tanstaafl,
You are in error again. If you will note, my criticism focuses on you and your views (which I call Nordicist). Unlike you however, I do not pretend to be more Aryan than other Aryans, I do not classify Aryans up and down some infantile Caucasoid totem pole, and I certainly do not have an issue with sharing my borders with my Southern Aryan brothers and sisters. Not now not ever. And That’s why I do practice what I preach.

Your views are reminiscent of early 1900s America when Irish, Italians, Spanish, Greeks, Portuguese, and others “not-white-enough-whites-for-us-real-whites” bullshit were targets of the clan.

Believe what you want to believe Tanstaafl but I do hope you come around because we need guys like you and other Aryans serious grey matter.

I am not going to get into books and authors right now. I just don’t have the time. Really man I don’t. As it stands, from our vantage point, some of your views are passe, some divisive, while the white nationalist movement in Europe is evolving, joining forces, and already way ahead of you.

You support the Golden Dawn? OK, here’s another truth brother. I AM Golden Dawn (5 years running) and considering your comments regarding Hellenes on Carolyn’s show, I think you’ll understand if we blue-eyed, green-eyed, and brown-eyed Golden Dawners take a pass on your support.

Carolyn

August 29, 2013 at 7:41 pm

I think I understand now, Luc. I was really confused about what you were blaming Tan for; I couldn’t follow it. You really ought to have just come out with it. I do recall at one point Tan said about Greeks being “almost” White (was it?), and you are offended by that. Well, it’s your prerogative, I’m sure, but it is really me who speaks against the Pan-Europe idea. I’m actually not against it, just don’t think its the solution to our problems. Cheers and thanks for the earlier compliment.

Tanstaafl

August 29, 2013 at 9:01 pm

Robertson’s The Ethnostate.

Luc

August 29, 2013 at 9:04 pm

Hi Carolyn,
What happening in Europe is very unique in history and undeniable. The rise of nationalism across most all the European nations and an ever growing collective awareness of who the enemy is, what their goal is, and how they plan on executing it. Ethnic cleansing of the Aryan races.

This time it will not be just one proud Aryan people (Germans) fighting for their survival but the entire European continent as one ZOG government after another is dismantled to the ground, oligarchs striped of their power, traitors tried, and enemies escorted out of nation after nation. It is then when a true European Union will becformed. And whow be it to the nation that takes
sides against this tide (UK) on behalf of Zionist powers. The Pan European movement will happen Carolyn, its a certainty.

Tanstaafl

August 29, 2013 at 9:59 pm

Luc,

I’m as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours. It seems to me the main error I’ve made is in hurting your feelings. Sorry about that. Hail victory, hail Golden Dawn.

Fred Wilson

August 30, 2013 at 3:32 am

I second Doug. The shows are good and well worth the time to listen to them. For a group of ‘Amateurs’ on a shoestring budget, without producers, directors, research staff and allied people you do a great job.
.
As to Hadding’s remark that lynchings made the South look bad. That’s only because a jewish media controls perception. If Pro-White producers created movies, the lynchings of ppl like Leo Frank could be made to look like the noblest activity since the American Revolution.
.
The Klan is probably the only institution of Law and Order that prevented ‘Reconstruction’ from turning into a massacre of Whites such as happened during the Haitian Revolution.

alsten

August 30, 2013 at 11:01 am

Luc makes some good points. I don’t think Nordicists understand the damage they do in reducing the appeal of these movements. Any White person who doesn’t have Blonde Hair and Blue Eyes is going to (at some point) wonder why they should help people, who will cast them as 2nd Class Citizens the moment they gain power. I know the Nord/Aryan argument is more complex than that but the case remains.

EG. I personally have a Hitler-esque appearance and can’t for the life of me understand why a Nordicist is any less my enemy than a Jew. At least a jew is relatively open about their views.

Now I’m not saying the Nord position is incorrect or useless but the simple fact is that most Europeans outside certain small regions, are a mixture of Euro types and just don’t have the same fetish that others in past may have had. Unfortunately I have no solution to this issue as Nords usually have no subtlety and their smugness is impossible to cover up.

Carolyn

August 30, 2013 at 12:37 pm

alsten – I don’t know who you are, but I think you’re trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Tanstaafl

August 30, 2013 at 1:59 pm

alsten,

Any White person who doesn’t have Blonde Hair and Blue Eyes is going to (at some point) wonder why they should help people, who will cast them as 2nd Class Citizens the moment they gain power.

You’re inverting it and blaming them for it, but it’s you here making your hostility and resentment toward people with blonde hair and blue eyes plain.

can’t for the life of me understand why a Nordicist is any less my enemy than a Jew. At least a jew is relatively open about their views.

And again.

You use “Nordicist” in the same way jews use “racist”. It means someone you don’t like. Their sin, in your mind, is valuing something you don’t.

Konrad Rhodes

August 30, 2013 at 11:04 pm

Dear Hosts,
Simply put the National Socialist plan for the Reich and for post-war Europe was correct. George Lincoln Rockwell’s “This Time the World” and the concept of a World-wide Anti-Jewish Union of National Socialists is the right way. Sovereign Nations committed to our Racial Sovereignty!
More specifically I wanted to comment upon was Tom Sunic’s calling many European Nationalists views “petty nationalism”. Frankly I have to agree with this sentiment. There were many German Nationalists when the NSDAP and Hitler rose and Hitler specifically mentions them in Mein Kampf. These are the petty nationalists. Sunic is qualified, though I generally have a strong bias towards Serbs, because he is a Croat with personal experience of what petty nationalists rotten fruits are like. Hitler and the NSDAP were dealing with a Germany that still was four kingdoms. Personally I think that it was the legacy of the Third Reich to actually solidify the German Reich and make what could have happened, Germany splitting back up into separate countries, a near impossibility today. The East and West split has far more meaning today than Prussian and Bavarian. When people talk about how Yugoslavia’s break-up was proof that multi-ethnic/multi-racial states can never work they forget how this is more an example of petty nationalism weakening and destroying several peoples who in fact are almost identical racially and linguistically, with a few exceptions, when the Communist shell called Tito’s Yugoslavia broke-up. I am not stating that they should try to re-unify but had it been different and a Yugoslav National Socialist Party taken power and held it I don’t have any doubt that it would have worked well. Only the Kosovar Albanians are truly racially distinct and of course who got the greatest NATO/US support? Them and the mixed-race mujahideen who used Srebrenica as a base until Mladic did what was necessary and right!
The point is that the present nations and territories are the result of governments and leaders unifying peoples from many regions. I don’t want to nor think it productive to try to unify into one government or nation beyond what Europe currently is today especially with the massive racial threat to our people. I think that Nationalists like Jobbik and Golden Dawn who are Anti-Jew, Anti-Foreigner, Anti-Non-White and National Socialist or “Social Nationalist” are the way to go!
I am having a lot of trouble explaining my meaning but let me just write: Gascony, Normandy and Provence are France but still should be able to be separate regions with cultural distinctions as should Prussia and Bavaria! Splitting up into many tiny sovereign territories and municipalities is not going to save us.

alsten

August 31, 2013 at 7:31 pm

“You use “Nordicist” in the same way jews use “racist””

Jews don’t use the word “racist”, they use “anti-semite.” It is Blacks who use the claim Racism and in this sense you are correct.

Obviously I’m over-sensationalizing this issue to make a point I think is still important. Carolyn is considered “Tainted” according to extreme Nordicist views which may be partly what leads her to preferring Regional Nationalism (Bavarian) over Pan-Whitism.

Now it’s only a theory but I suspect there is a large sub-conscious aversion to ‘Classification by Purity’ among most White people which is why these movements are still-born. Now are you telling me it’s only Jew Propaganda that causes many Whites to be repulsed by Pro-White movements? – because something isn’t adding up.

Tanstaafl

August 31, 2013 at 11:57 pm

alsten,

Now it’s only a theory but I suspect there is a large sub-conscious aversion to ‘Classification by Purity’ among most White people

Decades of jew propaganda has loaded the word purity with negative associations in a White racial context. In other contexts the meaning of the word remains extremely positive.

which is why these movements are still-born. Now are you telling me it’s only Jew Propaganda that causes many Whites to be repulsed by Pro-White movements? – because something isn’t adding up.

Mostly. For example, consider the word purity.

Madison Grant laid out his Nordicist views in The Passing of the Great Race, another book I recommend to those interested in the racial history of Europeans. This book was very popular when it was first published in 1917. Wermod and Wermod’s synopsis:

The Passing of the Great Race is one of the most prominent racially oriented books of all times, written by the most influencial American conservationist that ever lived. Historically, topically, and geographically, Grant’s magnum opus covers a vast amount of ground, broadly tracing the racial history of Europeans from prehistoric times to the present, with an emphasis on the need to preserve the northern European type and generally improve the race—for Grant was, logically, a proponent of eugenics. Generally well received at the time in both the popular and scholarly press and going through four editions and multiple reprints, Theodore Roosevelt described The Passing of the Great Race as ‘a capital work’.

Tanstaafl

September 1, 2013 at 12:08 am

Jews use “anti-semite” specifically in defense of jews. They use “racist” specifically in attacks on Whites.

alsten

September 1, 2013 at 8:38 am

Look I’m not saying Nordicist views are wrong and I’m certainly supportive of actual Nordic peoples working to preserve their racial types. I just think it’s completely self-defeating at this stage to say ‘Hey White people, we all have to work together to change this system but oh, by the way, many of you will be considered lower on the totem pole.’

You would literally be turning brother against brother considering the descendants of most mainland Europeans have variable admixtures. It’s only natural that they would have a deep psychological aversion to a ‘fringe’ Scientific theory.

If you can’t see the major problems in trying to ‘sell’ this to the broader White/European community, I don’t know what else to say.

Tanstaafl

September 1, 2013 at 11:05 am

You’re arguing with strawmen rather than anything I’ve actually put forth.

Whites have a “deep psychological aversion” to anything having to do with Whiteness and regard race science as “fringe” due to jewish propaganda. It is not natural. Prior to the current jewish hegemony over media and academy the views of Gobineau and Grant were well-known and respected by Whites.

You seem to have a problem with the truth and wish instead to argue about what to sell in its place. I don’t.

Will Williams

September 1, 2013 at 2:48 pm

Good quarterly show! Some random notes:

Y’all’s exposure of “money changer” and political hack Bobby Jindal and his deracinated Republican supporters as subversive hypocrites hit the mark. Informative. Refreshing.

Tan, as one who has been described negatively as a “purist,” I appreciate your definition of purity as being a positive descriptor for White loyalists, in the context of our striving to be free from anything that debases, contaminates or pollutes our gene pool. WN orthodoxy being Nature-ordered does not reject purity as an ideal, but as necessary to upward striving.

Every pro-White activist should have the books you recommend — Simpson’s WWWM? Dr. Pierce’s WWA and Grant’s POTGR — in his personal library

Tom Sunic’s promotion of paganism as a the world view that will somehow defeat the treacherous Jew makes about as much sense as his promotion of Harold Covington as a legitimate spokesman for WN.

The White preservationist cause is pan-Aryan with the tall, long-headed, fair-haired, fair-skinned, fair-eyed, recessive-gened Nordic type being the ideal most in need of preserving and expanding. Alpines (like Mr. Hitler) and Mediterranean-type Europeans are no less valued. We know who are White and who are not.

Interesting anti-White article from the Jewish Daily Forward about the 100th anniversary of Leo Frank lynching, found here: http://whitebiocentrism.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87&p=164#p164