Saturday Afternoon: Roots of the myth of National-Socialism's "occult roots"

Published by carolyn on Sat, 2014-04-05 13:59

April 5, 2014

Charles Krafft joins Carolyn as she explains from whence comes the idea that völkish/racial means the same thing as occultish/magical. Charles tells about the books and authors that have had a big influence in perpetuating the popular image of the “Supernatural Nazi.” Some highlights:

  • Adolf Hitler banned and suppressed esoteric organizations and individuals from having any connection to or influence on the NSDAP or his government from 1933-45;
  • The Thule Society emerged out of the Germanenorden (founded 1912), became a political organization in 1918, out of which Anton Drexler formed the German Worker’s Party (DAP) in 1919;
  • By Feb. 1920, Adolf Hitler had reconstituted the DAP into the NSDAP and severed all remaining links to the Thule Society;
  • An English fantasy novel “Vril, the Power of the Coming Race” was the source of the Vril idea, used by some, like Maria Orsic,  to engage in supposed communications with extraterrestrials;
  • Heinrich Himmler and two others established the Ahnenerbe institute within the SS to study “German Ancestral Heritage” through experiments and archaeological and cultural expeditions;
  • Since 1945, writers have produced a whole genre of “occult Nazi” books, comics and movies leading up to pornographic “stalags” featuring sadistic “Nazis” and their victims;
  • There has always been attraction to the fantastic and supernatural (and sexual!) and there always will be, but we should be aware it is also used to manipulate and fool us.

Image: Montage of supposed N-S "occult" figures and symbols includes Helena Blavatsky, Guido Von List and Heinrich Himmler across center; Dietrich Eckert & Karl Haushofer bottom. Click to enlarge.

Comments

27 Responses

  1. Jon

    April 6, 2014 at 12:23 am

    Regarding Cole’s claim about Rudolf Hoss, I did some very brief research and stumbled upon this, although I don’t know how true it is:

    “[Georg Konrad Morgen]went on to investigate Auschwitz camp commandant Rudolf Höss on charges of having “unlawful relations” with a beautiful Jewish woman prisoner, Eleanor Hodys; Höss was, for a time, removed from his command and these proceedings gained Hodys a brief stay of execution; sent to Berlin by Morgen, then transferred to Buchenwald, she was shot by the SS shortly before the end of the war”

    This excerpt from Wikipedia claims Hoss was “for a time, removed from his command”, so maybe that’s what Cole was referring to.

  1. Carolyn

    April 6, 2014 at 1:49 am

    Thanks Jon – You took this from the Konrad Morgen Wiki page. I don’t know how true it is either because there seem to be innumerable versions of this story, none with any assurance that it’s true. For sure there was an Eleanor Hodys, a political prisoner (who is sometimes Jewish and sometimes non-Jewish), who had a relationship with Hoess, and she testified against him. But she survived at Dachau.

    Rudolf Höss was charged with having “unlawful relations” with a Jewish woman prisoner, Eleanor Hodys; Höss was, for a time, removed from his command during these proceedings …

    But he was not punished, he was simply given a different job. To the claim that Hodys was shot by the SS, furtherglory of Scrapbookpages Blog writes:

    Au contraire, Eleanore Hodys was sent from Munich to the Dachau concentration camp where she told her sad story to the American liberators, who had taken over the Dachau camp, after the camp was surrendered to them under a flag of truce.

    The American liberators interviewed 20 prisoners, including Eleanore Hodys, and then wrote a book entitled Dachau Liberated, The Official Report by The U.S. Seventh Army. This book, “Edited by Michael W. Perry,” was finally published in 2000. The text of the book is 98 pages long; Chapter 5 which is entitled “Rudolf Hoess’ Mistress” runs from page 67 to page 91.

    http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/did-rudolf-hoess-the-comman...

    In other words, Eleanor Hodys, a political prisoner, survived and became a heroine, Rudolf Hoess did not survive and became a monster. All of the websites that proclaim the evilness of Hoess are Jewish, just like David Cole is. They want to find as many bad things about the “Nazis” as they can, and SS camp commandants are great for that, in their eyes.

    Konrad Morgen was an odd fit for the SS. He had been a pacifist and disagreed with Hitler. For his insubordination, he was sent to the Eastern Front. In 1943 he was a Judge-Advocate in the Hauptamt SS-Gericht while retaining his military rank of Major. Himmler selected him to impartially investigate charges of wrong-doing at the camps, and he was very zealous in his work, maybe overdoing it? There was criticism on that score.

    Because the facts of the story don’t match up, I cannot accept that Höss played dirty with this woman or agree with David Cole’s assessment of him.

  1. Repe

    April 6, 2014 at 2:29 am

    I think that the Allies have manipulated Morgen’s work. He was also forced to lie a lot after the war. This is sad, because his work would have been very interesting. Already his work and the execution of Kr. Koch were poison to the lies of the Allies. They had to fake and f. e. Smith’s book about Mrs. Koch is awful. It is full of shit from the trials after the war. Morgen’s accusations from 1944 may be genuine (?) but how much more is left? Now Morgen has become a part of propaganda. They say that all commanders of the camps were secretly terrible criminals. I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that f.e. Pohl was a criminal. He was a decent and honorable man. In the book is said that he got some gifts from Mr. Koch. That was all I think (according to the prosecution 1944).

  1. Paul Hickman

    April 6, 2014 at 12:56 pm

    Carolyn

    You mentioned the Black Sun during your program.

    The following is an explanation by the blogger Wotans Kreiger who is well informed on the subject and writes the blog ‘Aryan Myth and Metahistory’.

    The Black Sun

    There is another and deeper reason why the Black Sun has eclipsed the Swastika. That reason is elaborated on in my The Black Sun [Die Schwarze Sonne] in Eddic Mythology and Fairytale article published on my Die Armanenschaft der Ario-Germanen blog on 26/12/13. Put quite simply the current active Sun, the Golden Sun is in the process of being `eclipsed` by the Black Sun, the currently passive Sun which will become active again after Ragnarok. It will become the active Sun of the new Golden Age of the Arya. The Eddic mythology from both the Elder and Younger Eddas makes this abundantly clear. At the time of the seeding of our race at the North Pole this ancient Sol Niger was visible in the sky and exerted a psychological and physiological influence upon our race. That influence will be felt again in its full power after Ragnarok. We know that the Arya will be purified through the fires of Ragnarok and the earth will be cleansed from its physical, biological and spiritual impurities due to the sacrifices of the Einheriar. The rejuvenated Arya will emerge from the safety of Odainsaker to replenish the earth. To meet them will be the rejuvenated Gods who will walk hand in hand with the Arya to accomplish the next phase of Aryan existence. Thus we must welcome Ragnarok. It cannot be avoided. The Gods know this and so do we.
    However before the new can come the old order must be destroyed. The signs of its decay are already present and the end is in sight.

    http://aryan-myth-and-metahistory.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-black-sun-a...

    The following is a non ‘esoteric’ explanation of Himmlers’ use of ‘The Black Sun’

    Meaning of the Radiating Spokes

    There are a variety of possible meanings in the design of the spokes. Germanic sun wheels commonly do have bent spokes. For Himmler, the bent nature was likely important because each spoke represented the Germanic sowilo rune of the Elder Futhark, which represented the sun. Himmler adopted a modern rune system which called the symbol sig and had it represent victory. His most known use of the sig rune is the insignia of the SS, which uses a double sig rune.

    The pattern created by the crooked radiating spokes might also be interpreted as three overlaid swastikas. This interpretation has led some neo-Nazis to adopt the symbol, particularly in places where the display of swastikas are illegal.

    The chamber containing the Black Sun is known as the Obergruppenfuhrersaal, the Generals’ Hall. Besides the Black Sun having twelve arms, this chamber also has twelve columns and twelve niches along the wall. There were twelve branches of the SS, so that may have been the relevance.

    Other have advanced a comparison to the twelve knights of the round table. Himmler was a great fan of mythology and folklore, and two of the reading rooms within the castle were named Konig Artus (King Arthur) and Gral (Grail). As head of the SS, Himmler could potentially have also used such imagery in organizing the SS into twelve branches.

    The number twelve also has relevance within Norse mythology. There are twelve Aesir gods, for example. Important groups of twelve can be found in other cultures as well, such as the twelve Olympic gods in Greek mythology and the twelve disciples who followed Jesus.

    Beneath the Obergruppenfuhrersaal is another chamber that became known as the crypt or vault. It holds twelve seats against a wall surrounding a depression in the floor. The depression was meant to hold an eternal flame, a light emerging from darkness and rising up toward a swastika in the ceiling and then the Black Sun on the floor above.

    http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols/a/Black-Sun.htm

  1. Markus

    April 6, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    Thank you for the kind words, Carolyn.

    Occult has two meanings, one is evil the other one is simply hidden.

    Of course, there is speculation involved in this whole Haunebu German saucers debate, but in my view, it is fine to promote it, as long as people talk positively about it and do not use it to demonize NS-Germany as demon worshippers.

    I heard many good pro-NS scholars that promote this.

    Germanen in German always refers to Germanic and never to Germany alone (Deutsch).
    Thule is an old word for Greater Germania and/or Scandinavia.

  1. Carolyn

    April 6, 2014 at 4:51 pm

    Markus, I would say (which I failed to say) that occult means secret, then magical or mysterious. The word mysticism is also given.

    “I heard many good pro-NS scholars that promote this.” Scholars? Name some.

    Thule is said to be a legendary place in the far North. It’s said if it were real, it would have to be Iceland perhaps. But it’s not real. Don’t get too carried away in the occult, lol.

  1. Markus

    April 6, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    I can think of Dr. Axel Stoll and Peter Schmidt from Germany or John de Nugent right off the top of my head.

    De Nugent’s website is in English. A lot of his findings are at least worth considering.

    We don’t need to be carried away with this, though. I agree.

  1. Carolyn

    April 6, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    Thanks Markus, for those names.

  1. jimhardpeka

    April 6, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    Excellent podcast, Carolyn. Did you ever read “Until the Final Hour”,the autobiography of Traudi Junge; Adolf Hitler’s personal secretary? She said that while they were in the Fuhrer bunker during the last days of the Glorious Reich, Hitler told her that National Socialism would return in one hundred years, but as a RELIGION.

    Carolyn, I strongly feel that if National Socialism is to be reborn in this New Age, It MUST contain a SPIRITUAL as well as a political component. Himmler and his SS were strongly involved in the Occult. Toward the end of the War, they devised a means of raising the vibratory level of energy, and were able to establish an advanced civilization in Antarctica. It is said that there is a city existing on a higher vibrational frequency called “New Berlin”. It has a population of over two million people. Adolf Hitler, Eva Braun, and Martin Bormann escaped the destruction of the glorious Reich by the Jews in 1945. The Fourth Reich is trying to make contact with us in any way that they can. They WILL help us to Victory.

  1. Carolyn

    April 6, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    Jim, you are not going to convince me of your nutty ideas. I am actually shocked that you can write what you just have. I had no idea you were so far gone into new-age spiritualism. “Himmler devised a way of raising the vibratory level of energy” and took the whole Hitler inner circle to Antarctica. They are trying to make contact with us!

    As to the Traudl Junge book, I have what was put together as Hitler’s Last Secretary (copyright 2003), which contains what she wrote in 1947-48 and added to in 1965. If you believe that she recalled correctly what Hitler said about N-S returning in 100 years as a religion, why don’t you believe the rest of her remembrance about the details of his last days? People like you, who claim to be National-Socialists, are only doing damage to it. But I thank you for presenting yourself as a perfect example of what I was talking about in this program.

  1. jimhardpeka

    April 6, 2014 at 10:07 pm

    OK Carolyn. Have it your way. We shall see. The physical universe is NOT all there is to REALITY. There are many dimensions in the multiverse. Anyway, I respect your views, even if you don’t respect mine. I still REALLY like your podcasts.

  1. Carolyn

    April 6, 2014 at 11:33 pm

    I KNOW the physical universe is not all there is; I said so on this program. But that doesn’t translate directly into your fantasy of a New Berlin of 2 million inhabitants existing on Antarctica … with not one shred of evidence. You have this idea that all views should be respected, just in order to be nice guys. You are a libertarian, not a National Socialist and should stop calling yourself one.

  1. jimhardpeka

    April 6, 2014 at 11:58 pm

    You DEFINITELY have me classified wrong, Carolyn. I have NEVER been a libertarian. I do NOT think that all views should be respected just so we can be perceived as “nice guys” Nice guys finish last and I want our great Aryan Race to finish first. How do you KNOW that New Berlin is a “fantasy”? I have always been somewhat psychic” (not psycho). Is there anything wrong with that?

  1. Markus

    April 7, 2014 at 10:30 am

    Pravda wrote about the 2 mio Reichs-Germans in New Berlin. It is not really evidence, though.

    http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia/29-11-2002/18504-0/

    And here is a post-1945 Atlas that correctly shows the still existing state borders of the German Reich in Antarctica.

    https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/peter-schmidt-berlin-zehlendorf/9933362444/

    The UN’s Antarctic Treaty forbids all UN member states to claim land on Antarctica or use weapons there. The territorial claims by various UN member states are all tentative for a time, when the Antarctic Treaty expires. Germany is not a member of the UN, but an enemy state of the UN (UN charter, enemy state clauses written during the active war /shortly after 1945). Only the BRD and DDR occupation constructs are or were UN members since 1973.

    The whole idea that Reichs-Germans still exist somewhere, correlates with the facts that the German Reich is still at war with all UN member states and that anti-German war propaganda is continuing to this day worldwide.

    Add to this that Germany really worked on developing flying saucer Haunebus and you have a possible explanation of what is really going on in military strategy and the cosmic proportions of this possibility.

    This whole concept becomes even more interesting if you consider NS-German studies on hollow earth/hollow planets in general and how this theory is laughed off by the academic world, even though there is no proof that the earth/planets are solid either. The scientific community simply consents on the solid planet hypothesis.

    As I said before, Carolyn. I don’t mind if pro-WN go into that and even incorporate this in some kind of second coming religion. I just hate those enemy documentaries that want to relate Ahnenerbe/German saucer development etc with sinister satanism.

  1. Carolyn

    April 7, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Markus – Second coming religion?? What you are doing is putting the other arguments you make in favor of Germany in disrepute and disrespect. You can’t be taken seriously. I realize the fascination of all this, but at the same time it is the kind of thing that keeps grown men from doing something useful in the real world for their race while they entertain themselves with expectations of salvation from outer or inner space beings.

    Hitler would not approve of you seeing him as a divine space being, as in the Maria Orsic stories which you apparently believe. Don’t bring anymore of this stuff here; I won’t publish it.

  1. Markus

    April 7, 2014 at 1:21 pm

    Haha. No problem, Carolyn.

  1. Carolyn

    April 7, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    Well, I did a whole program against it, then you feel you must continue with it. Now Markus, when you finally prove any of this, and have the evidence, then bring it to me.

  1. jimhardpeka

    April 7, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Thank you very much for your support, Comrade Markus. We are on the same wave length. Thank you also, Carolyn. You have made some excellent points. Who REALLY knows?

  1. Markus

    April 8, 2014 at 8:22 am

    Jim and Carolyn,

    I won’t mention this topic anymore. If there is anything true to it, we shall see.

    Carolyn,
    Regarding Helena Blavatsky and the pro-Slavic comment about her. I found out that she was born Helena von Hahn. Her father was a German and her mother was a Russian noble woman (German-Russian royalty maybe).

  1. kilroy

    April 9, 2014 at 9:39 am

    Political tendencies often have an esoteric or occult culture attached to it. Freemasonry could rightly be called “liberal occultism”

  1. James

    April 10, 2014 at 5:50 am

    Hi,

    I appreciate your attempts to pierce the nebulous views of Occulted history, but I am afraid your familiarity with these topics specifically do not do honor to your view upholding those other views you have adopted. There is more evidence that you are placing the man, Hitler, into that comfortable form that suits your ontology. I think if you look beneath the veneer you will find the truth . But as you and your guest both disclosed you go not know what the black sun is, it makes me think there is more potential for disinformation. I have recently heard you have ridiculed those who see Sandy Hook for what it is. Perhaps you fear, as my mother, the occult is nefarious instead if a gnostic quest to true reality . Hitler criticized the freemasonic lodges because of their subversion ability, but to separate Hitler’s movement from his ontology is to not understand him at all, and this the wider picture. You fear mysticism but adhere to certain tenets of Abrahanic faiths? I write with love, thinking that you are probably doing what you think us best, but I must caution you that the mind will bifurcate by nature and one cannot so easily discuss iniatic wisdom in so trite a conversation about it. I believe you will find the clarity to our problem on earth by following your intuition and remain courageous. But look at that which you do not quite understand until it becomes clear.

  1. Carolyn

    April 10, 2014 at 11:11 am

    James – You totally misunderstand the purpose of this program. It was not to explain occultism, but to demonstrate that Adolf Hitler had no interest in it, and it played no part in building the National-Socialist ideology. Therefore, explaining the alleged meaning of the “Black Sun” is not something I would want to do.

    In any case, the “Black Sun” is not black at all. It’s just another sun-wheel symbol that is generally shown printed in black on white, thus someone decided it was a “black sun.” As has been pointed out, the symbol appears on the floor design at Wewelsburg Castle in a very light green color. Why wasn’t it black?

    Himmler’s interest in discovering Germanic racial roots and its connection to paganism had nothing to do with the NSDAP. He had no authority in the Party. His inclusion of certain rites among the SS (totally voluntary for SS members, by the way) was allowed by Hitler. Bormann did have authority in the Party but he was not into the “occult”, he was simply against Christianity. However, Hitler did not allow him to enforce his anti-religious views onto the membership, the platform or any party business.

    As for me, I’ve delved into mysticism pretty extensively in my life, starting when I was in high school finding books in the library that I thought were quite exciting. Later in life, I was even a teacher of Metaphysics for awhile. I have never feared it.

    I have recently heard you have ridiculed those who see Sandy Hook for what it is.

    I always get a bad impression when someone says “I heard.” Then you don’t say “what it is” but just try to give the impression that you know something others don’t know. This is the cover that most people like you use — hoping to appear that you have superior, but secret, knowledge. See the programs I’ve done on Sandy Hook on both The Heretics’ Hour and Saturday Afternoon.

    I have only published your comment because it’s an example of the type of person who turns to the occult and fantastic – often only partially learned in the subject and not sceptical enough. Adolf Hitler recognized that and saw most of it as a waste of time as far as politics went. He expounded on his own Weltansschaung of respecting the laws of Nature many times, so there is no confusion about it. Yet people like you want to attach him to whatever brand of occultism you like without any evidence, only making things up. That is so wrong, and an insult! That is the disinformation. That is what the program intended to show.

  1. jimhardpeka

    April 10, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    Carolyn, I didn’t know that you were a Teacher of Metaphysics. I have been interested in Metaphysics for nearly fifty years. I studied Christian Science, Unity, Religious Science, Theosophy, Vedanta, Yoga, etc. What is your feeling now about a metaphysical approach to Reality?

  1. CNMMNC

    April 11, 2014 at 7:40 am

    Just as a side note – The Scottish and York bodies, right down to the local lodges of Freemasonry, are racially separate from the black/”Prince Hall” lodges. TO THIS DAY, they know cohesion and effectiveness comes from racial separation/deliniation. “New-Ageism” tries to ignore racial reality and is feckless for some and toxic to the gullible.

  1. Carolyn

    April 11, 2014 at 10:49 am

    jimhardpeka – of course Reality includes more than the physical. Beginning “metaphysics” usually entails practicing concentration and undivided attention, meditation, using your thought to create things and conditions you want … in short, taking charge of yourself. All normal and natural. Then there is paying attention to your dreams, learning about past lives and, more advanced, learning to consciously leave your body. While this is considered advanced, it’s less important in my opinion, plus we leave our body every night during sleep.

    My feeling now is that we enter into this marvelous physical/mental/spiritual plane because it is the best and most challenging there is. While it’s certainly helpful to know the full spectrum of what we are and take advantage of the “sixth sense” available to us, we should mainly have our attention in the here and now, and not seek to “hang out” with the non-physical. We’ll do that soon enough when we die. I’ll say again, the physical is “the cutting edge.”

    Along with this, I no longer agree with the idea that we’re on a ladder with the goal of reaching a state of perfection. There is no end in sight. It’s more like a circle, a returning, and there’s more and more. Life is always happening and Life is all there is. There is no death.

  1. jimhardpeka

    April 12, 2014 at 5:47 pm

    Carolyn, I agree with you one hundred percent. Thank you for your excellent comment.

  1. Carolyn

    April 13, 2014 at 1:09 am

    You’re welcome, Jim.

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